Interview with Susan Detlefsen, North Central's Director of Media Relations

Thursday, Feb. 23, 2006

You can speak for administration, correct?

I’m co-chair of the task force that we put together to talk about the issue, so I think I speak in that capacity, so I would appreciate being identified as that.

As co-chair of the task force handling this specific issue?

Sure. Well, I’m director of media relations, I’m a Cabinet member, and then I’m co-chair of the task force. You can identify me in those roles.

Who else has been involved in the decision-making process, or is it all handled by the task force?

That’s a great question. The make-up of the task force is deliberate in that we have a member of student life, Jake Smith. He’s the other co-chair of the task force. There’s Sara Biskey, our human relations director. I’m not sure if that’s her title—you might want to get it from her, but she’s from HR. We have a member of the faculty, Clint Watt, because we definitely wanted a faculty perspective, and Mike Cappelli, director of security, and myself, director of media relations. And we also wanted another faculty member, but that person wasn’t able to participate. That’s pretty much the make-up. And also Nate Ruch. He’s the director of university relations.

Now the final decision, that’s come through the President’s Cabinet, correct?

That’s right. The Cabinet makes the final decisions.

So the task force has handled it and then they brought it to the President’s Cabinet and they decide? Is that how it works?

That’s how it works generally, yes. The task force works on research and strategy and then brings recommendations to the Cabinet.

That makes sense. Would you be able to speak at all to how the communication has been handled from administration’s end between Soulforce, how they responded so far to the attempts the group has made to contact the school?

Sure. I’d say the official communication has come from the president’s office, obviously, and then members of student life have also been in contact with Soulforce as well. The question’s kind of broad, so I’m not exactly sure what you mean by ‘handling the communications.’

Do you feel that it’s been open communication, that it’s been friendly, or do you feel like it’s been more, I guess, closed, or just a business thing? How has administration felt about that?

Sure. Well, I think it’s been handled in a way— It’s gone through the process that most groups— We don’t usually get groups asking to come on campus. We very often invite groups to come on campus, so in that situation I think what the process was was similar to when other groups ask to come on campus. Their request is considered, is researched, and then a decision is made at the president’s level, at the Cabinet level, that sort of thing. This is an issue that needed research, needed some consideration, so the decision came down then from the President’s Cabinet. As to whether the communication has been friendly—is that what you’re asking?

Yeah. Sure.

Okay. Um, I haven’t heard of anyone being insulted or offended by any communication on our part. On the administration’s side, I think it’s been genial. Whether or not you consider a declination of an invitation to be genial or not, I think it’s been a civil conversation, definitely.

How often has that happened that a group has asked to come on campus? You said that’s somewhat rare?

Yeah. I honestly don’t deal with that area, so that might be a question for the president’s office. I know in the past, Dan Call was the person who did a lot of chapel scheduling. Brian Jensen does a lot of the programming. Dan Call isn’t available, obviously, and his former office doesn’t really handle chapel anymore. I’d maybe talk to Brian Jensen about that, or perhaps the president’s office.

I think maybe you already addressed this a little bit, but maybe in a little bit more detail, could you tell me what you can tell me about just exactly how administration has handled—what process they’ve used to decide how to respond to the group?

Sure. Process, I think, it was one when the administration learned of Soulforce’s request—yeah, I kind of touched on this—their request was considered, their material—the material that they supplied—was reviewed, as were their materials online, and we contacted a couple other schools to talk about their responses, and then the decision was made to decline their request for a campus visit.

What would you say are the reasons why administration chose the route to decline the request?

Sure. I think, number one, we have theological differences with their opinion, with the stances that Soulforce has taken, and that’s stated in the written statement. I think we speak to colleges who have had experiences with Soulforce in the past. I think the more we learn that Soulforce requests dialogue, but ultimately they aren’t interested in dialogue. They do ask it, they do say that’s what they want, and yet some of our sister schools have found that in the Soulforce members, they aren’t really interested in dialogue. I think this is a true statement to say this is really a publicity campaign for them more than anything else. I think they’re really excited about getting a lot of media attention, but I don’t necessarily think they’re really interested in dialogue with the school.

So you would say that their claim of wanting to come on campus to build friendships—would you say that’s not their goal, then?

I wouldn’t say that, because one of their motives might be to build friendships. But I think ultimately, their goal is to sway opinion, and the profession of academic freedom is, I think, a laudable goal, but I also don’t think that’s truly the goal. I think the goal for this is media attention more than anything else.

Is it possible for them to have multiple goals—maybe one is to build friendships and one is to garner publicity?

Definitely, I think they have philosophical goals, but I don’t see how a protest in front of our building is going to achieve an academic freedom goal, I guess.

What response do you feel would have been the appropriate response for the group to take after receiving the school’s decline of their request?

You know, I don’t want to dictate their moves. I don’t think that’s my place. Their motives are their own, so I wouldn’t tell them what to do.

How does the school respond to the claim that the group says, ‘Well, even if we are out for publicity in one respect, in another respect we really think North Central should allow us on campus to prove that they will allow academic freedom and free critical thought’? How would you respond to that statement?

Let me repeat that back to you just to make sure that I understand. You’d like me to respond to the group’s claim that North Central isn’t allowing academic freedom because we won’t allow them on campus. Is that right?

Yeah, that’s right.

Well, I think we can look at it in other ways. North Central University hasn’t allowed drinking on campus. So if a group wanted to come and set up a bar on campus, we’d probably say no to that too. It’s just, this issue is in my opinion, as a member of the task force, I think America has a ton of academic freedom. You can go to a college less than a mile away in the University of Minnesota, and if that’s your choice, there’s plenty of academic freedom, I guess, over there, which is a great thing about America—again, you have freedom of choice. I think North Central offers people one choice and the U offers people another choice. I don’t think North Central hides from its policies. I think they’re clearly stated before a student comes here. We say, this is the expectation we have, and then if they feel like they can’t live up to those expectations, they have the choice to look into other places. That’s kind of how I address the academic freedom issue. I don’t agree with Soulforce’s definition of academic freedom. … I think there’s a definition there that they’re using for their own advantage rather than the real definition of academic freedom.

Would there ever be possible room for a group to come on campus that disagreed with the school’s policy on homosexuality if, say, they weren’t as much of an activist group, or do you feel like that’s an area that the school isn’t willing to compromise on?

I think that would have to be taken on a case-by-case basis. In this situation, the administration did do their research. It wasn’t just an, ‘Okay, forget it, you’re not in here because this is what you want.’ It was something that was definitely considered by the administration, by the task force, by people from several departments, and so it was considered—it was prayerfully considered—and I think that the conclusion was that this group won’t be beneficial, that they aren’t interested in dialogue.

How has feedback from students, parents, donors, other people affiliated with the school, affected the decision-making process?

Sure. I can’t speak to that just because I haven’t received much feedback in that area. Definitely we’re always thinking about what our constituents think, what the people we serve think and want, but ultimately, you know, the Bible is going to decide, you know, our decisions, the theological stances, our spiritual tradition, is going to, you know, inform a lot of our decisions, I think much more than our constituency. And so, I think that our first consideration is, you know, our theological and spiritual heritage, that our interpretation of the Bible is going to inform those decisions first and foremost. Of course, we’re going to think about the people that we serve, and that definitely informs those decisions as well.

One thing that Jacob Reitan, the founder of the group, has said is that he feels like even if North Central completely disagrees with the group’s stated goals and purposes, as well as their stance on homosexuality, that he feels the Christian thing to do would be to allow them on campus and offer some sort of Christian love towards them in that respect. How would you respond to that statement?

I’m interested in that that’s the only expression of Christian love—that our only expression of Christian love would be to welcome them on campus—because if that’s all that they were asking for, is just to be on campus, I would say I think it’s welcomed on campus, and just to sit down and talk, I would say, you know, that would be an expression of Christian love. If that was the only motive that he had was to sit down and talk to people, I would say fine. But I find his motives to be beyond that. His motives are beyond just to sit down and have a chat. And so, I find that disingenuous, I guess. I would challenge you to perhaps look up some more of Jacob Reitan’s writing, which has appeared in some magazines, and I’d say that his motives aren’t just Christian love and to sit down and have a talk. And so, I think we can express Christian love and we have been doing that at the Cabinet level and on down. We’ve been praying. We’ve definitely been praying—for our institution, but also for Soulforce, the members of Soulforce, the people who are coming here. I think we’re seeing this as, although we haven’t officially invited them on campus, I think we do see this as an opportunity to express Christ-like love. I think the fact that they aren’t necessarily on our grounds doesn’t limit Christ’s love in any way and that it still can be expressed and that we’re expressing it right now. One of the biggest ways right now is through prayer.

Are there any other ways or plans that North Central has had to try and reach out to the homosexual community in general and try to bridge relationships there?

That’s a great question. That might be something better for student life. I’m not entirely sure. I know that we’ve had individuals in the past work in that area. In the history of the school, I know that because of our location, that’s been something that the school has considered and had to address. I don’t know if there are any official plans to do that in the area, but I think that’s a great question for, say, someone like Jake Smith.

As far as North Central’s theological and practical response to homosexuality, Jake Reitan has also made the comment that he feels like North Central’s worldview is to say that being gay, and I quote him here, “Being gay is sick and sinful.” Do you feel like that’s an accurate representation of North Central’s worldview?

No, I don’t. And I say that because after being in the Cabinet, after being on the task force, I have not heard those kind of statements being made. I have heard people express concern, express pastoral concern for this issue, and the people from student life that I’ve talked to, their concern is one of a Christian caring for a brother or sister, a brother or sister in Christ. I have not heard vehement derogatory language like that. I haven’t heard that.

If you could summarize what North Central’s worldview would be towards homosexuals in just a sentence or two, how would you summarize it?

I would point to that [official] statement [by the school]. I think that summarizes it very well for the institution.

Another thing Jacob has mentioned to me is he says his interaction with Bethel University—he used it as an illustration—he says it’s been very positive. They’ve welcomed them on campus. I do need to say that I haven’t verified that with Bethel, so I’m only saying that this is what he has told me. But if what he is saying is correct, he says that Bethel is welcoming them and he’s going to give them very positive comments to the local media, and that he feels like North Central has been the complete opposite of that. How would you respond to that comparison between the colleges? Do you feel like it’s fair? And also, how would you respond to the potential local media—the light the school could be put into from the group?

Two statements. I can’t comment on Bethel’s policies. I’ve read the material they’ve released on their website. I’ve spoken to their PR director. But again, I wouldn’t comment on their decisions because they are Bethel’s decisions. And so, I don’t feel like I can really comment on authority with that.

As far as the comparison of the two schools in Jacob’s statement, I feel like that’s a bit of a threatening statement. I think that’s too bad. I think that’s too bad that he’s kind of threatening to throw our name through the mud and use the media to do that. That’s really unfortunate. That’s too bad.

I think what he said is that he’s only chosen to go that direction since the school’s declined to welcome them on campus, and if they would have welcomed them, he wouldn’t have done that. Do you feel like that makes any difference at all?

No. It’s still the same thing. It’s still his intention that because we’ve decided not to participate, he’s decided to condemn us, and he’s planning on using the local media to do that. That’s unfortunate. That’s too bad. I think it again reveals his motives. I think that truly his motive is for publicity, not necessarily dialogue with us.

As far as the potential relations with the school and local media, how does the school plan to work with that issue?

How does the school plan to talk to the local media? Is that the question?

Basically, yeah.

Okay, sure. That’s something that the task force is still working on, I think. We are going through the office of university relations to talk with the media about this issue, but I think as far as a strategic plan, [that] is something that the task force is still working on as far as the local media or even the national media is concerned.

I guess lastly, Jacob has told me that the group does plan to go forward with this plan to come on campus despite the school’s request that they not. How will the school respond to that if they still attempt to come onto the actual grounds of campus despite the request?

Sure. That’s something also that the task force is dealing with, and I think you mentioned in your voicemail message that they were planning on having arrests, or getting arrested?

No, that’s inaccurate. If I made it sound that way, I apologize. Jacob—actually, I asked him about arrests; he didn’t bring it up. He said that, you know, they weren’t going to not come on campus, you know, if that was what was going to happen, but he says that that’s not their goal at all, to get arrested. That’s what he says. I actually brought up the question to him just because I need to ask the question for the story.

Sure. Well, I think again the strategy is still being talked about and discussed in the task force, so I don’t think I can comment on it at all. I think it would be great if they would respect North Central’s property rights; however, we’re in the city, you know. We’re in a great location. We are very intentional for being in the city. We want to be here. And that also means that our campus is pretty open. Anyone can be on the sidewalk who wants to be on the sidewalk, you know. And that’s a right that people have. You know, they have a perfectly legitimate right to be on the sidewalk in front of our building. And I think that is a great location to be if you wanted to protest something, you know, is to be right in front of there. I guess I’m not sure what the purpose would be of the group to violate any kind of property rights that North Central had besides publicity.

You said, just to reiterate, that at this time you can’t comment on whether or not the school might pursue the possibility of arrests? That’s still being considered?

Sure. That’s something that’s a topic that has come up in the task force, and I guess my question is, what would members of Soulforce do that would require an arrest, because that’s seems to be extreme to me. So, you know, that just seems like an extreme response to me, you know, doing something that would get you arrested. And that again I would question, what’s the purpose of that? Is that a purpose for dialogue, or is that a purpose to advance your cause?

Isn’t it correct that the school actually does have the right to arrest members of the group even if they just attempt to come onto the school’s private property?

That would be a question for lawyers more than anything else, and again, that’s something that the task force is talking about. The law states that, you know, you have private property; there are rules and levels of trespass; there are several things that need to happen before that, though, so simply stepping on school grounds is not illegal, you know. I mean, there are steps to take. You won’t get arrested just for stepping on a piece of grass. Definitely not. And so, the question is, what will Soulforce members do to cause that kind of reaction?

Sure. I think my last question, then, is has there been a response in school policy to the group’s request? Any changes or clarifications at all in that regard?

Their request for what? To change school policy?

Well, that too. I guess I meant more just the ongoing situation with them asking to come on campus and their plans.

No, I think we are standing with our original decision, and nothing has really persuaded us to change that, so that’s where it stands, I think, right now.

That’s all the questions I had. Is there anything else that you feel is pertinent that you’d like to add right now?

That’s a great question. I think I’d just reiterate that this is an issue that the school takes very seriously. It’s also an issue that I think our culture at large is dealing with, and this is just an extension of that. Again, I think the word ‘opportunity’ has been used in several of the meetings, that this is an opportunity for us to both look at what we believe and why we believe it, and then also an opportunity to extend Christ-like love to people we don’t necessarily agree with. They might disagree with some of the ways we go about doing that, but that doesn’t mean that we wish ill of them at all. I think that’s a pretty important point, that we don’t have to agree with them to still express Christian love to them, and that’s kind of where I’d leave it.

I guess if I were to actually ask one last question, I would say, how would you as a representative of the school, for students out there—I don’t have any estimates or anything and it could be an extreme minority for all I know—but if there’s students out there that are doubtful, don’t feel too confident about the school’s decision, feel like they really should have welcomed them on campus, what would you say to those students just to reassure them that administration has been doing the right thing in this situation?

Sure. That’s a great question. I’d really encourage students to talk with one of the members of the task force, I think because the task force is very informed on the issue, the task force is very informed on Soulforce as an organization. We are, again, talking to our sister schools about the situation. Some of them are on the list for the Equality Ride, some of them have been targeted by Soulforce in the past, and I think if students have questions on that, I say, please go ahead and ask. Talk to administration and try to get to one of the members of the task force, because I think we’d be happy to share and explain more of the process of what we’re doing and how we’re making decisions, why some decisions were made, those kind of things along those lines. That’s what I’d really encourage students to do.

I think the task force is planning on keeping the line of communications open. We’re hoping to do more communication with students. There was an event recently, I think a Tension event, that addressed the issue. There’s going to be a chapel next week—two chapels—to talk about the issue, so I think we definitely want to talk about it.

Is the tension group and those two chapels, are those just addressing the general issue of homosexuality, or is that addressing the specifics on Soulforce?

That’s more general, and then I believe in April we’re going to have a chapel session that’s specifically about Soulforce. That’s in the works right now, anyway.

Is there anyone in particular on the task force or in administration that you would direct students to with questions to ask?

I don’t know. I think we’re all pretty well versed in the material. From the student life perspective, Jake Smith is definitely on the forefront of the issue. He’s had dialogue with people from Soulforce, and he is, I think, leading a lot of the student life programming on this issue. He’s very educated on it. Again, I think that all the members of the task force are aware of the issue, and it’s something that we deal with on a regular basis. Any one of them, I think, would be willing to speak. Officially, the school requests that external communications go through the office of university relations.

Do you have anything, once again, just at the very end, to add at all?

No, I think that’s it.